Robert Ray served as a member of President Donald Trump’s legal defense team during the President’s first Senate impeachment trial in 2020. From 1999 to 2002, he led the Office of the Independent Counsel, during which time he investigated and issued a report on the Whitewater controversy.

This interview offers perspective and legal analysis on the four-count federal indictment against Donald Trump. The former president has pleaded not guilty to all four counts.

The interview was conducted by Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on Oct. 19, 2023. It has been edited for clarity and length.

This interview is being published as part of FRONTLINE’s Transparency Project, an effort to open up the source material behind our documentaries. Explore the transcript of this interview, and others, on the FRONTLINE website: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/democracy-on-trial/

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FRONTLINE is produced at GBH in Boston and is broadcast nationwide on PBS. Funding for FRONTLINE is provided through the support of PBS viewers and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Additional support for FRONTLINE is provided by the Abrams Foundation, Park Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Heising-Simons Foundation, and the FRONTLINE Journalism Fund, with major support from Jon and Jo Ann Hagler on behalf of the Jon L. Hagler Foundation, and additional support from Koo and Patricia Yuen. Additional support for this program is provided by the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation.